Ep 29 Carers - Looking After yourself

Carers are an amazing group of people who care for the family and friends very well, but they often fail to look after themselves. Yet the health and vitality of a person at the centre of a life event is really intrinsically linked to the health and vitality of the person that's caring for them. Listen for some ideas and resources to help keep yourself well while you care for someone else. 
Featuring Kelly Banks from Support Crew 

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Transcript

Carers – Looking After Yourself

Kia Ora and welcome to The Ending Life Well Podcast. This podcast series for carers focuses on advice and practical solutions for carers who have been thrown into the deep end looking after a loved family member or friend in their last days, weeks or months of life. 

Our episode today is Carers – Looking After Yourself 

Denise

Hi, I'm Denise van Aalst, a senior palliative care nurse and educator with Otago Community Hospice. Today, I'll be talking with Kelly Banks, co-founder of Support Crew, an online support platform that helps those dealing with life changing events to easily coordinate meals, and any other support they need from their support network. Good morning, Kelly. Thanks for joining us.

Kelly

Good morning, Denise. lovely to be here. Thanks for having me,

Denise 

Kelly, you and I both feel really strongly about how important it is that people look after themselves, that they are putting themselves first and, you know, doing what they need to support themselves, especially if they’re helping support somebody else.

Kelly

Yeah, definitely dear to my heart. And I think deeply ingrained in my own personal experiences, which I know we’ll touch on. But I think we have so many good sayings that kind of speak to that, hey, like the, you can't pour from an empty cup. You know, you've got to put your own oxygen mask on first. And a little superhero analogy, you know, that think about self-care, like putting on a, you know, a superhero cape. That you've got to have your own powers charged before you can, you know, sort of save the day. 

Denise

I like that. 

Kelly

And I think, particularly when you're caring for someone always say to people that the health and vitality of a person at the centre of a life event is really intrinsically linked to the health and vitality of the person that's caring for them. And that self care piece, yeah, is just so important. I think when when you're a carer, but it's often the last thing that people think about

Denise 

It is and Kelly, I'm keen to talk about the website you've set up because I think one of the biggest challenges for people caring for others is accepting help themselves isn’t it? And then how do we ask for that help? Because people might say, Hey, let me know if there's something I can do for you. But then it's really hard to be able to go back and say, well, could you do this? Or could you do that? Your website Support Crew, I really love this website. This is a way of putting out there what it is I need, and then allowing people to look at that and say, ‘Ooh, well, this is something I can do’. And it's so simple.

Kelly

Yeah. And I think it's come from my own personal experience as being a carer so my partner Randall was diagnosed with stage four bowel cancer. And then his journey when he first got diagnosed with with cancer very much heard that phrase that you just mentioned, you know, that let me know what I can do to help which is incredibly well meaning. Because often the problem isn't that there isn't enough people to help. It's that there's a load of people who want to help, but they don't know how. On the flip side of that, when you're going through something major, like a cancer diagnosis, or even a new baby, or the loss of a loved one,  you're often so overwhelmed you don't know what help you need. And you actually don't know how to go back and ask for it later, even if you have sort of figured that out. So myself and one of my best friends Janine Williams created Support Crew because we saw that that juggle that you do when you're going through a major life event in our own personal experiences. It was my experience with Randall and also Randall had MS so was very much a carer for him before his cancer diagnosis. And then Janine, very beautifully. Her youngest was born prematurely. Her mom's a breast cancer survivor and she's got sort of cancer in the family. So we very much saw that need in other people you know, you're going through a massive time you don't know what help you need. You don't know how to coordinate it. And then you've got friends and family and members saying ‘What can I do to help?’ so we wanted to create something that sort of sat in the middle of that, that really helped people to know what help they potentially need. And to provide a platform for them for them to ask for it. 

Denise 

Well it's hard to ask for help anyway. And, you know, then if we worry, well, I really need my lawns mowed. But if I ask you to mow my lawns, maybe that's not what you were meaning to offer, you were meaning to offer something else. And your website, it means that I can put out what it is I need. And the big one that comes to me is that idea of, we often cook for people don't we, if we want to do something for them. And it's so easy to end up with, you know, six lasagnes one week and nothing the next, and again I can put into your website, if I'm needing help, but actually I could do with a meal on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday night, but I'm fine over the weekend. But if somebody could mow the lawn, somebody could walk my dog, those are the things that would actually make my life easier. And then all I've got to do is let those people know that have offered to help. And they can opt as to what they want to do. 

Kelly

You're so right. And you know, we often say when you're going through a major life event, you end up with a freezer full of lasagnas or the house full of flowers, or the cupboard full of baking. Which is all incredibly well meaning but I think often what happens when people don't know how to help they help in the best way they know how. And it's often not necessarily aligned with what you actually need. Because we don't know what we actually need when we're going through that life event. And we don't know how to ask for it. So yeah we've tried to create Support Crew in a way that helps people think about the types of help that they might need without actually having to think about it. So how it works is you set up a support page. And it's fast, it's free, and it's really private. So only those people that you invite to the page can actually see the page. And then once you've set that up, basically invite your friends and family members and community so anyone that you want on that page to communicate with and sort of make requests for help with things from, and then what happens is you make those requests for help plus, you can share updates as well. So as you well know, when you're going through something massive, that communication piece can be a massive burden, because you often have got the barrage of emails and phone calls and text. So creating support pages is definitely that one place, you can keep everyone up to date with how the person's doing or what help you need. But yeah you've touched on a really important point, I think, when you're going through a life event often what happens is you get all of that help in those first couple of weeks. And it all comes at once and I know when Randall was first diagnosed, we got two fruit and veggie boxes, which was amazing but we were physically not going to be able to get through those fruit and veggie boxes in that first week, when what we really needed a hand with was was getting him to radiation treatments. So I think what Support Crew beautifully does is try to align the help that's really needed with the help that people are giving. And like you say it provides a beautiful opportunity for people to go onto the platform and have a look. And when you add a request for help we've tried to design it to make people think about the types of help that they may need and you very rightly said, it's often meals, which is great. But what happens is you click on the ‘plus’ to add a need request. And there's a whole lot of icons, so it's meals, it's transport, it's cleaning, it’s dog walking. So you might be going online to set up an online help roster, for example, but you might look at those icons and go like you've just said, oh actually I need someone to walk the dog or someone to pick up the kids from school or I haven't thought about the fact that maybe I'd like somebody to do some laundry for me. So just kind of helps people to think about that types of help. Particularly when you're in that overwhelm space, and then people can just accept the things that they can take care of. And you're not having to ring someone up and say, I have thought about it. Actually, could you make a meal for me next Wednesday cuz that's not what we do. You know, we're not good at asking for help and then we're not good at accepting help either. So it kind of just tries to remove that barrier a little bit and make it just that little bit easier to ask for the things that we really need. 

Denise 

Yeah, cos I think it is it is easier to actually put out there that these are the things that will be helpful and then allowing people to offer that rather than asking you specifically to do this specific task. I really like that idea. And I think the suggestions that you have on there are great because sometimes we don't think about they’re the things that we might need. You know, I'm aware working in palliative care that often what people need is someone to sit with the person they're caring for, so that they can actually get out of the house for a little bit. And very often, there might well be friends who’d be more than happy to come and spend an hour or two sitting with them. They don't need to do anything, but just being there means you can safely leave. And, you know, that's just something really simple that if we only knew that that's what was needed we’d offer it. 

Kelly

Yes, so true. And that's one of the major things that people ask for a hand with, is that companionship piece, and certainly something that I valued when when Randall was going through his cancer journey, because I would ask for people to come and sit with Randall while I went for a walk or went to the gym or did something that was meaningful to me, and it goes back to that self care piece that we talked about before, and that my health and vitality is really important to looking after Randall, you know, that I need to be well, as well. And then also, that's beautiful time that that person gets to spend with, you know, particularly in palliative care. I recognised when Randall went through his journey, I didn't want to be a burden to other people. And I didn't want to ask for help. And I wanted to look like I, you know, I had everything figured out, you know, like, I've totally got this and what Randall would do is he would squirrel away in the background, trying to get other people to take him to radiation appointments, so that it wasn't all a burden on me. And I was like, no, no, I've got it. But then I realised  that by giving the gift of allowing others to help then he got to spend precious time with people in the car, you know, the two hours to radiation and sitting there and coming back. And that is beautiful time that you know, that I was taking away from him spending with other people. So I quickly began to realise that yeah, it's, it's an important gift that you give to other people when you allow other people to help. And we know that feeling we get when we help someone else and how beautiful it is whether we've cooked a meal for someone or taken them to an appointment, or come and sat with someone, it's just a shot in the arm isn't it, in terms of how it feels when you help someone else. And so for those really struggling to ask for help, and struggling to accept help. Try and think about it as a gift that you give to others by allowing them to help and allowing them you know, that beautiful gift of of helping and the feeling that that comes along with it. And also I think people can feel much more connected to your journey when they are able to help. 

Denise

I like that, yeah.

Kelly

So Randall had sort of five surgeries and chemo and radiation, but we didn't have Support Crew until his fifth surgery. So  was very aware when we set it up as a meal roster of how people felt using Support Crew. Don't get me wrong, we had lots of amazing support and people but I very intrinsically felt like I needed to do it myself. So this time around with the platform was like Ok  I'm going to allow other people to help. By asking for meals, like we got meals. Because within support crew, there is a give store. So people able to help out with meals or a fuel voucher or care package or some gift vouchers. So when I set up as a meal roster, we got meals from my aunt in London, my aunt in Whakatane and friends in Nelson and Cambridge. And so I think it also extends that network beyond, you know, people that just lived nearby. But also what I noticed and was really acutely aware of was that people really felt much more connected to our journey because they'd been able to help and they could see how he was doing and the difference that the meals made. So I think, you know, an indirect benefit of using Support Crew is connecting people together, and that sort of shared village community in terms of helping people along on a journey that is one of the most vulnerable times in your life when you're, you know, going through a major life event. 

Denise 

And Kelly, you touched earlier too, the way that this website can also be used to help communicate. You can use this website to share messages around, ‘not so well this week, can we just back off on the visitors this week, please’. Or, you know, like ‘we're happy to get phone calls, or we'd rather get texts’, ‘visitors are great but please ring first’  you know, those kinds of things that can just help manage that complicated side of overwhelming visitors, again with the best of intentions, but helping to manage that and keep that manageable.

Kelly

Yeah. And that's really hard, hey, like, proactively communicating with, you know how you like to be communicated with. And you do that on our support page, because there's a couple little toggle buttons on the main page that says, Are you accepting visitors? Or are you accepting calls? and then you can put a little note against each. So if you turn off ‘No I'm not accepting visitors’, you might say, ‘hey, yeah, not able to accept visitors at the moment, but check back in a couple of days’. And then with calls it might be ‘not able to receive calls at the moment, but happy for you to text’, you know, or ‘happy to receive calls, but only between sort of two and four in the afternoon’, because someone's napping or whatever that that looks like. And I think socially it's really hard to communicate that to people. And I know when Randall was going through his last surgery, he wasn't recovering that well in hospital, so wasn't able to have visitors. So we just put on his support page, you know, ‘unfortunately, he's not doing that well, but check back in a couple of days’, because I was never going to ring up, I wouldn't bring up you Denise and say, ‘if you're thinking about visiting, just letting you know, Randall is not doing that well’, and then ringing all the other people, it's kind of not what we do, but a very important message, as well. So I think it really helps to communicate that. And then on the whole messaging front, in terms of how people are doing in a journey, I think it really helps save time, like we had this, this amazing support page, and it was set up by a husband of a woman who had a terminal cancer diagnosis. And he would just go on to the page once a week and communicate with how, how she was doing. And he said to us, “that was just a game changer for us”, because it just freed up his time. So he wasn't replying to emails and text messages and phone calls. So he could spend time with her and, their beautiful family. So it's definitely a time saver, particularly in those crucial moments. And we had this very beautiful support page, this wonderful woman called Carol who had a support page, with us, probably one of our first support pages, and she used it over about 13 months. And unfortunately, she passed away, and she had about 224 people on her support page at the end, you know, it sort of started at 30 to 40, and then increased more and more, she had a lot of family overseas in the UK. So, they were on the page checking in on her progress. And when she did pass, her husband went on to the page and said, “Look, I'm really sorry for the impersonal way of communicating, but unfortunately, Carol's passed away”. And then a lot of people came back and said ‘oh, we're just so grateful to know, so quickly, and to be part of that journey’. And we realised that he was unlikely to have 224 emails or mobile numbers to communicate with everybody all in that one space. And the page then beautifully morphed into supporting him and their beautiful son, because they needed support as they dealt with the grief and the loss of Carol. So that communication piece is massive and I think, not something we realised  when we first developed Support Crew just how important that piece would be. But is certainly something we've realised is massively valuable in the platform. Some people don't ask for anything on Support Crew, they just use it as a communication tool. So that's the beauty of it is that you can use it in whichever way shape or form suits you best.

Denise 

It can be really then just what people need it to be. It's not prescribed that if you become a part of the support crew, that you have to get meals or you have to get, transportation. Actually, you're able to use it for whatever works for you. And, you know, you can just reach out to half a dozen people, or you can expand that to whoever your’re comfortable offering to help. 

Kelly

Yeah that's a really important point, Denise, yeah, you just invite as many people as you feel comfortable sharing your journey with and people are so different in that regard. Some people like to tell a whole lot of people so that they can get as much help as possible. And we do coach people around that, like invite as many people as you feel comfortable with because then the more help that you can get and the more you can share that across you know, your friends and family. And also, I think because often when you're going through a tough time you think when you need help that you you can only ask people who live nearby, right? Because well who can swing by with a meal or take me to an appointment?  But the beautiful thing about Support Crew is that you can invite friends and family from afar because they can help you with a fuel voucher, or a supermarket voucher or meals and kind of feel connected like they've helped you get to an appointment, you know. So it means that people who live in a different part of the country or a different part of the world, can help out and help out with those things. And also we see lots of different life events and lots of different reasons why you’d use Support Crew, like we touched on them before. So depending on what that situation is as to how many people it is that's pertinent to invite. 

Denise 

One of the other things that I think is really helpful is that I don't have to set this up myself, because I'm still really uncomfortable about asking someone to help me, but my best friend says to me, ‘Look, Denise, I'd really like to get you some help. Can I do this on your behalf? I know who to reach out to. I know, there's people here who really, really want to help’. It's really simple then for someone else to set that up. Because it still comes back to that doesn't it, that we're not good at asking for help very often. 

Kelly

And that's so true. And often there's someone coordinating that help anyway, isn't there? That's taken the bull by the horns and gone, ‘I'm going to organise this for you’. And depending on on how well a carer is too. There was a time where I got overwhelmed and stressed and Janine had to, and my mom had to, take over managing the page, because I was kind of a bit down and out and having to focus on on my own things. So also, one of the cool things is that you get to invite other admins to the page. So it's not just up to one person, as many admins as you like. And we do recommend to people to get someone else to do it for them, because then they can focus on the big stuff. And it can often be a carer will set up a support page, and then add other admins and they might set up all the details, but then it kind of gets passed off to the main management for someone else. And also it speaks to that when someone says, let me know what I can do to help you can go, ‘Oh, can you start a Support page for me? or I've set up a support page. Could you go on and manage it for me?’ Because there's often people who are really close who are coordinating that help anyway. And it just means that they've now got a beautiful tool to do that other than a spreadsheet or you know, Whatsapp group, which is a really difficult way and manually difficult way to coordinate all that help. 

Denise 

Yeah. Because it is a big thing, isn't it when we are caring for someone else, if the carer falls over, it all falls over. So we need to acknowledge that, you know, carers are a pretty special breed. You know,  it's learning as a carer to to accept that help from others is that self care for them. It's going to sustain them for a longer journey. It's going to make life a whole lot more pleasant and you touched earlier on them being able to just enjoy time with the person they’re caring for. Because some of those niggly, adminy things are being taken care of by somebody else so instead of having to think about the groceries and the cooking and the meals, tonight I can just be at home and enjoy because someone's actually going to rock up to my front door with dinner for us.

Kelly

And often you don't know that that's the help you need until you need it. Like I remember being on the floor one, one evening after coming home from Randall being in hospital and I had food in the fridge but just the the idea of actually cooking a meal was just beside me. And and that was why we set up set up the meal roster because you often it's not until that moment that you realise, oh my God actually I would just love somebody to just turn up at my front door with with a meal. So if you can proactively, you know, ask for that then yeah just the the difference that it can make. You know how your phone has lots of, if it has lots of apps open then it drains the battery and your battery doesn't last as long. And so often think about asking for help as a way of closing down a whole lot of apps. So closing down meals, and you know someone taking the dog for a walk and all of those things, so that your battery lasts longer so that you know you're more easily able to help to deal with you know the major thing that's happening. Because often I think with caregivers it's not just the physical things that you need to do but it's the mental things that you need to deal with as well because it often impacts on you just as much as it does, the person at the centre. We definitely see Support Crew as an ability to just kind of shut down some of those things and also get help with some of those things that are a mental load, but you don't realise they are. I think we talked before about like the walking the dog piece, you know, it's one of those things that you kind of feel like you need to do. But actually, if someone else could do it, it's great. Or often it's gardening and things around the house, those things aren't getting done, because life is just a little hectic right now, got lots of things going on. But if somebody came around and like mowed the lawns or tidied up the garden or did some weeding, you know, the impact that that has on your mental health and your your emotional load and mental load can be pretty significant. 

Denise 

And I’m just gonna go back to what you were saying about having all those tabs open, is that mental load, isn't it, of thinking, I've got to get groceries, I've got to get this person to an appointment, I've got to cook a meal tonight, ooh somebody was coming over to do something, I need to let my friend know about that. There are all of those things. So if we can, as you say, shut down some of those tabs, the battery's going to last a lot longer and be a lot healthier. So it's a really key part of self-care.

Kelly

Yeah, totally is making sure that yeah, you take those important steps to, you know, preserve your own health and your own mental and physical and health and wellbeing it's really, really crucial for caregivers.

Denise 

Yeah it really is. There is another website, Kelly, and I'm not sure whether you've been to it at all, but it's called carers.net.nz and it's a wonderful resource for carers. It's also a New Zealand based website. But I particularly like there’s a carer info pack, you can download and then amongst it is a Take A Break resource, and it has all these amazing little websites to go to. And it might be doing sand art on the computer, it might be a tour through a virtual museum or an art gallery. And, to me that’s that around that mental break of actually a little bit of timeout, maybe I love to read, but maybe actually I can't focus on a book right now, because I have too much going on. But something that's a little bit just gentle and mindless, but feeds my soul. That's gonna be really therapeutic. 

Kelly

Yeah that's so true. And that low mental load type activities, isn't it but, but things that bring you joy, I didn't know you could do sand art on the computer, I'm so gonna look that up. You know a very good friend of mine had a concussion and learnt a lot about the brain and how those those breaks are really important. And when you're doing high load mental activities doing the low load mental activities are really important for that, for that brain functioning. So yeah, I totally appreciate how, how important that is and amazing that Carers New Zealand have got such awesome resources to be able to support you.

Denise 

And it's finding where the resources are, aren't they? You know, so that websites a New Zealand one, your websites a New Zealand website, but they're both sites that will work around the world, you know, you don't have to be in New Zealand to be able to access these and use these sites to get the support you need.

Kelly

Totally. And two aspects to that, I think for Support Crew. One is, you know, when you invite friends or family members, they can be from anywhere in the world. And I think probably about 15% of our people, you know, I think we've had that 12,000 People use Support Crew to give and get a hand. And about 15% of those are from overseas, because that's the nature of where our support crews are. But also, if you're going through a major life event, and you don't live in New Zealand, then absolutely, you can still set up a support page to care for someone. What it will do is, when you select a different country from the sort of drop down box, it'll turn off the gift store because obviously the gift stores, you know, curated with lots of wonderful products in there that are relevant for New Zealanders. But it just means that they can still go and set up a support page and invite people and ask for help and use the platform and in the same way that you can here in New Zealand, outside of that gift store. 

Denise 

Kelly, you said something earlier also that when you were trying to do it all and you were trying to be superwoman, and take care of everything. In fact, Randall ended up working away and trying to also take care of you didn’t he and so actually, if you had at an earlier point, been able to accept help from others, it would have meant Randall would have been less worried about you because he would’ve seen you getting help. So, you know, not only would your friends have felt good because they could help you. You would have had your burden eased, Randall also would have had his burden eased because he would have been less worried about you. 

Kelly 

Yeah, yeah that's so true. And it's funny when you look back on it now.  I definitely see that now and wished I hadn't gone so long, you know, without without asking for that. And it's hard now because I see it in others, you know, you see other people really just wanting to take that, that full burden But you're so right it eases the burden on the person at the centre, on the carer, and then provides that wonderful ability for others to help I think it's a sort of vulnerability conundrum, isn't it? When, when you're asking for help, because you really do have to, it feels like it exposes an insecurity. But it also, I think, activates, a strength in us in terms of being able to ask for that help. And, you know, flipping that, that stigma around asking for help, and it being seen as a weakness, but actually, it's a massive strength to be able to do that. And the benefits, you know, are outreaching to everybody really.

Denise 

Yeah I think that's a really key point, accepting help from others is a strength not a weakness and what fabulous role modelling as well, for our friends, for our family, especially if we've got children involved ,when they see us being willing to accept help from others, we’re giving them the message that that's okay. Because as long as we role model in front of children ‘I have to do it all’. Actually that's not the message we want to give them is it?

Kelly

That's so true that role modelling piece is a massive one. And you're so right, then there's often children or nieces or nephews, or other mums or other people going through that same same thing where you're role modelling that ability to ask for help. And then I'll often say to people, if it is a massive struggle, start with something small, and something that you think that you can ask for help with. Meals is a great one because everyone needs to eat. And if it is that setting out, you know, a month long meal roster is just too daunting, ask for two meals a week, you know, then once you feel comfortable that maybe it's three, or whatever, or challenge yourself to ask for help outside of that, and just see how that feels. Flex that asking for help muscle. So if you're at the supermarket, and this is relevant to me, because I'm a bit vertically challenged, you know, go to the supermarket and choose something that you want off the top shelf and ask someone nearby to help you get it. So you just start to flex that asking for help muscle, so that, you know, you just kind of grow over time. And each of us will have a different propensity and different challenge with that. But I think it's yeah, encourage people to challenge themselves in that respect. 

Denise 

I love that. I love that idea of flexing that muscle by just stretching ourselves a little outside our comfort zone with something, you know. And you're right, I have to do that quite often at the supermarket, asking for something to reach off the top, especially if it's at the back of the top shelf. And I'm looking around for the tallest person around me.

Kelly

Yeah, but you're role modelling it too. And how good does it feel? You kind of want to give yourself an internal high five, when when you ask for help. And you get something hey, like, oh my god, I asked for help. Somebody said yes, it all worked out. And you also see the joy on their face, like someone who's potentially walking along the supermarket, just minding their own business and in their zone. And then when they helped someone they’re ‘oh that was so nice’ and have a little little connection. So yeah.

Denise 

There’s a smile isn’t there? You know, they smile, you smile. There's that connection that's happened for a moment. And you know, almost invariably they’re walking away feeling a little bit better about their day, because they've done something good. And so we come back again, to what we said earlier, why would we deny our friends the chance to feel good? By doing something for us? 

Kelly

It's a beautiful gift we give others by allowing them to help. 

Denise 

And hindsight is often what we need to have seen that. So actually, let's take the moment to look back at the times in the past when we haven't accepted help, or that we have and realised how good that's felt, and to reflect on the times that we've helped others so yeah.

Kelly

And often we find people who like if they've had a cancer journey, and they've had a recurrence, and they come along, and they're like, this time, I'm asking for help like, you know, And they just really own that space. And like, Yeah, I know how difficult it was the first time and I'm not willing to do that again. So let's not not wait. You know, let's do it. Absolutely. In the first instance. 

So for people who are keen to learn about Support Crew a bit more and how it works, then our website supportcrew.co. And also, that's got my contact details on there so if anyone like wants to set up a support page, but's got some questions, or not quite sure about something, or need some coaching around asking for help, and needs a little nudge, then my contact details are on there and happy for people to reach out to me directly, so that we can help get them get them started with the support page.

Denise

Kelly, thank you so much for joining us today. I think, you know, if we can just give people that final takeaway message. It's accept the gift of others helping you because it's also a gift to them.

Kelly

Yeah, absolutely. I love that. 

Denise 

And thank you listeners for joining us today. This podcast was brought to you by Otago Community Hospice with support from Hospice New Zealand.

The two websites discussed today are supportcrew.co an easily navigated site to help you decide what help really works for you. And also carers.net.nz a wonderful site that offers resources and guides for carers. 

We began this series with an episode on self-care and we wrap it up now with this latest episode on self-care. The many topics in between have been designed to give you information to support you and your family on this journey. Just as it takes a village to raise a child surround yourself now with a village to support you through this time. Reach out to your GP, your practice nurse, your local hospice, your family and friends and find the help you need.

If you have any feedback or suggestions for futher episodes we would love to hear from you at endinglifewell@otagohospice.co.nz

If you found this discussion helpful check out our other episodes of Ending Life Well a podcast series for carers. You can also find more resources for caring for a person who is dying at otagohospice.co.nz/education